For the first time in its operational history, FISA Section 702 has lapsed, plunging U.S. intelligence agencies and telecom providers into a highly uncertain “grey zone.”

In this episode of Safe Mode, host Greg Otto sits down with Glenn Gerstell, former NSA General Counsel and senior adviser at the Center for Strategic and International Studies (CSIS), to navigate the fog of this unprecedented lapse. While the government is temporarily coasting on grandfathered certifications, the operational reality is getting increasingly dicey. Gerstell explains what this lapse actually means for the future of U.S. cyber defense, how political friction is complicating long-term planning, and why temporary stopgaps are creating unnecessary hurdles for the agencies trying to keep us safe.