Following on from my "Am I wasting my time with a bench lathe" thread and all the help I got there, I thought I'd keep my tooling questions separate...
I ordered some indexable tooling from Chronos - just delivered. I didn't find the website that easy to navigate tbh and was backwards and forwards trying to figure out what I needed but ended up with some general LH & RH tools (plus some other bits - parting tool, chamfer etc): https://chronos.ltd.uk/product/pair-of-lh-rh-indexable-facing-tools-with-4-inserts-16mm/
They came with CCMT inserts, which I understand are fine with steel but I want to cut some brass so ordered some CCGT inserts (https://chronos.ltd.uk/product/set-...the-tools-a-superior-finish-on-aluminium-etc/)
General comments on my choices welcome, but I had a specific question on the CCGT inserts - my understanding for brass with HSS ground tools is zero rake but the CCGT inserts have a fair bit of rake on them (the tips themselves are quite "dished" giving a positive rake, the tools themselves are flat). Will that be OK or should I look for some flat inserts (I couldn't obviously find any)?
Last edited: Thursday at 7:43 PM
Send some time on the APT website they have good info and decent inserts.
I have some very cheap GT inserts ( from when you could get 10 for £7), They cut EN3 nicely without tearing till you push too hard or too deep and a flake breaks off . They are fine on brass.
I did not like the Glanze approach at the time of sets with all different tips so I went all ccmt 09 which is easier size to get than 06 which makes boring small holes easier.
Chronos are overpriced import rubbish mostly, some of their stuff may be good but wouldnt look there for insert tooling, have not bought from them for years. The same sutuff is on amazon for not very much.
Shop APT had some good inserts for ferrous, but my opinion is that CCGT's are much the same for any brand.
Inserts for steel are greatly improved by proper brands, cheap ones are mostly rubbish. Stainless and special ones are also not good on steel.
CCGT is great for non ferrous, dont waste them on ferrous, they will chip like glass hit by bricks. Once chipped, they can be lightly sharpened and used for rough turning ( dimensions and centre height will change)
Brass is a special case. I have a very specific technique which I have never seen documented elsewhere. A fast feed rate gives violent small chips that spit at you and result in awful splinters, to be avoided.
Note there are many types of brass and I mostly have leaded CZ121 due to getting it cheap from zoro...
A deep depth of cut and extremely slow feed rate will result in big long curlers and avoids most risk of spliters. I made a video showing it here
Also if turning thin walled parts, as the video shows, its best to take a deep cut rather than trying to creep up on the size - the material towards the chuck will support it where as with smaller cuts you dont have any strength.
get some hss tools and learn how to sharpen them . most material;s can be cut with them apart from hard stuff .dont get too hung up on tip tools for everything there not always needed
get some hss tools and learn how to sharpen them . most material;s can be cut with them apart from hard stuff .dont get too hung up on tip tools for everything there not always needed
Not worth the time or effort. Any decent steels en16, en19, en24 will be a pain with hss.
I dont see any point in turning en1 or en3 leaded rubbish steels.
En16M has added sulphur that makes it turn similar to brass (the same technique above works) and is a good choice for smaller lathes.
What Kram said.
A small lathe simply won't take the cut sizes that a lot of inserts are designed for, so look for "finishing" type of inserts for steel, and small nose radius 02, 04, that way you can turn steel nicely without taking huge cuts.
Ffs. I’ve made a mess of this, eh?! Did loads of research and chronos came out well
If you can fit the thing with a Dickson type quick change toolpost, and have a quantity of toolholders for it, you'll really save some time, and avoid a lot of annoyance.
The same goes for having a keyless tailstock chuck.......
Ffs. I’ve made a mess of this
Not at all. The holders that you have bought are fine. The Glanze stuff is good for a starter set as it is acceptable quality. Sure, it is possible to buy the same quality for less but that only comes with experience.
It is only the _inserts_ they supply that are not so good.
Not at all. The holders that you have bought are fine. The Glanze stuff is good for a starter set as it is acceptable quality. Sure, it is possible to buy the same quality for less but that only comes with experience.
It is only the _inserts_ they supply that are not so good.
Id agree, we all have to start somewhere, my biggest criticism with most of the far eastern tooling is the poor quality of the little screw head holding the tip in, and the tool tool to undo them, buy spares.
Learning to grind HSS will help your understanding of the process, cutting feeds and speeds makes a huge difference too.
Buy some of these and some 1/4" hss bits. You can then grind and hone them for different metals.
HSS copes with interrupted cuts better than inserts.
Cc** only gives two cutting edges per insert, save the chipped inserts and make a low speed grinder for carbide.
To confuse the issue even more, I get good results with Eccentric Engineering diamond tool holder. HSS and the jig makes sharpening dead easy.
I also use his upside down parting tool in the tool post. D3 chuck so it won't come undone.
Not at all. The holders that you have bought are fine. The Glanze stuff is good for a starter set as it is acceptable quality. Sure, it is possible to buy the same quality for less but that only comes with experience.
It is only the _inserts_ they supply that are not so good.
Ah, great - not a total screw up then 
I'll keep the holders, send the inserts back, get some decent ones from APT and look at getting some HSS stuff as well. Steep learning curve! Noting also that I got the 06 sized inserts not 09 but I fitted one of the tool holders last night so suspect it'll be marked now so can't return it.
Nothing wrong with the chronos stuff you just paid a bit extra is all...
APT used to sell some excellent inserts for small lathes of which I bought many. I've not yet found a cheap source of similar ones.
A big problem when turning steel is to get chips to break, which requires a fast feed rate, not too easy on a manual lathe.
The inserts that APT had, DCET0702, were excellent for breaking chips at low, sensible feed rates, producing nice curled chips.
Normal inserts will give long stringers at low feeds which are irritating and can be unsafe if they catch or rip the part out of the chuck. Or catch your finger on a high tensile worm!
Ffs. I’ve made a mess of this, eh?! Did loads of research and chronos came out well
Chronos is fine. I use them occasionally.
You need to remember, when on this forum, that you are amongst a set of folk who may be somewhat peculiar & set in their ways. The advice will generally be good, but don't take anything as gospel.
I'm still using some Chronos inserts I bought maybe 14 yrs ago, so certainly not (or weren't) "bad".
I've got a large selection of HSS tooling, some used, some specials, some new, some blank - chucked out at work and aimed at me by a tool stores guy who knew I might find a use. Useful to regrind to make specific cuts, grooves etc.
Something I have found I need decent inserts for - parting off. I can bust crap inserts for fun, ruin HHS tooling in seconds. I seem to have finally worked it out relatively recently, and with decent inserts, works okay. Although, to be honest, I'm not sure what I'm doing different now to any time over the last few years.
I tend to use generic (steel cutting) inserts for almost everything only ever swapping to sharp alli style tips for really fine stuff. As said above keep the tip radius small and you can do wonders with them. At work I have very little time or patience for grinding hss, it’s only ever done for form or groove tools.
This was bronz not brass but the finish it pretty good
Well APT delivery arrived this morning. Chronos tool holders have gone back as they were twice the price of APT (and mixed reviews above!). I also went for 09 insert size as well.
Turned a small brass bush for a slightly oversized QCTP similar in design to shiny Steve’s above!) and lovely snug fit. Pretty chuffed. Some learning along the way (ordered a LH boring bar by mistake for example!!).
Just need to figure out setting the compound accurately as I was getting a tiny bit of taper over about 35mm which wasn’t great. 0 degree mark appears a fraction out. Just need to figure out what I can use as a reference point for the dial gauge as I’ve only got rough stock at the minute.
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